Goatriders of the Apocalypse

Let's make it immortal

In case you've missed it, I've been engaged in a heated debate with a Cubs "fan" in the Shout Box who has made repeated statements the past few days about:

1. how the Cubs "SUCK ASS" - direct quote
2. how Jim Hendry dismantled a winning team this off season
3. how this team will "break your heart"

And so on.

You know me.  I have a problem with this.  My problem isn't that he's worried -- can't blame him, the Cubs have lost 8 straight, are under .500, and look absolutely horrible right now.

No, my problem is that this Cubs "fan" is so short sighted that he can't see things clearly.  He's quit on the team.  IN MAY.  Anyway, since the Shout Box has locked up for 30 more minutes, I'm creating this thread to invite the anonymous guest to Man Up and talk with me about it in a place where he has to wear a handle ... the actual content section of the site.

So.  Guest.  Let's recap... first, you have given no indication to having "temporary" concerns about the Cubs.  You think they're done for.  You believe they have no chance of reaching the playoffs. 

Second, you got hot with me when I directly said the following...

if at the end of May you're taking THAT stance about the Cubs... what's the point?  why - or how - are you a fan?  if you give up on a team - any team - at the first sign of mediocrity
(and every team looks mediocre for long stretches in a 6 month season) then why follow the team to begin with?

Notice the first part of the question is "if."  The short answer would be "oh, well I don't think the season is lost, I just think they need to do something right now."

Instead you took the "you feel the same way as I do, you are a trite hack, how can you attack people for feeling differently than you do" and eventually hours later "I never said anything about giving up on the season," once you realized how horribly stupid your words looked.

So.  Here's another chance to clarify. I can't wait for your response.

Yes I def agree with u....m

Yes I def agree with u....m bradley is starting to hit and so is soto it was only a matter of time is no cubs fan was patient we would not sell out EVERY NIGHT....not to mention we haven't had a huge bat in our lineup....A-RAM....or Fukudome wasn't in the linup and we still scored 7 Runs....The Cubs will Make the playoffs this year no doubt....it might even b the wild card who knows Dempster can still get back to last years form and the Z will come around...U know how the cubs had a great 1st half last season and then didn't do as good the second half this year it will flip we will have hot bats going into the playoffs and i recal the cardinals won 83 games the year then won it so id really care what the offseason record is when they make it cuz the playoffs r way different!

Kurt vs Guest

Hey Kurt. this is Gmby from the old days here. I'm not the "guest", but I'm sure you already know that. I did want to say that I understand his frustration without going back and seeing what he wrote. I saw the Cubs play Sunday in San Diego and it's clear to me that this team isn't as good as last team was. They seem to have gotten old or, well, you called mediocre but they look just plain bad right now.

I'm sure even you agree that they haven't looked this bad since 2006. Even though the Cubs HAVE broken my heart many times in my life, I don't believe they are designed to break my heart. That's bullcrap. What I do want to suggest is that while this season is far from being one that should be given up on, it seems fairly clear that 2008 was a spectacular year and it was our window for winning the world series. The Cubs blew it and now they are clearly a worse team this year. It's hard for me to quantify this statement to anyone but I just don't feel like they have that killer instinct they used to have.

What do you think? When you look at this team, can you imagine them churning teams to mush like they did in 2008? I mean, they might be as good as they were in 2007 but I guess I was hoping for more. I'm not dejected just yet and certainly not ready to give up on the season but I've gotten used to this team winning and this series of games hurts something terrible.

What do you think about that?


I'd actually direct you to

I'd actually direct you to how the Cubs looked just 2 years ago ... on this date in 2007 the Cubs were 22-25 and spiraling downward.

At GROTA we'd pretty much given up on the season by June 2nd when the team was 22-31. Keyword is "pretty much." I wrote something about how we'd raise the white flag on the season by the end of the week.

What I think is that the Cubs need to start doing things differently but the team itself is entirely capable of winning a LOT. What I think is that neither the Cubs nor any team in baseball is as bad as the .160 team average they'd displayed since the start of the losing streak before yesterday. What I think is that any fan should be concerned, but any fan who flat out gives up on the team disgusts me.

Anyway, I remember you Gmby ... it great to see you here. What's new on the old AOL forums ... are they still kicking?


I do think and did say that the Cubs' upside this year is 2007 and not the awesomeness that was 2008. Can the Cubs win the division if they are as good as they were in 2007? I'd say they can't.

BTW Kurt, you've become quite a remarkable writer! I have been reading this blog for years and no, I have no idea what's going what's going on those old AOL forums. I have to tell you that you were much younger back then and thus were kind of a punk but I actually eagerly look forward to your take on all things Cub these days more than possibly anyone else on the net! I hope you take that as a compliment.

I'm not giving up on the Cubs this year and I'm probably in the same place you are regarding them but they do look quite bad right now. I'd think you'd at least have to agree with that.

Allen (GmbyMan)

Thank you, Allen, that's a

Thank you, Allen, that's a very kind thing to say!

It's funny you mention how I used to behave because I was thinking just the other day about my old attitude when I was a youngin. I still get in trouble sometimes because I am VERY stiff toward certain fan outlooks and behaviors, and I continue to display the bad habit of wanting to get "the last word in" in any debate ... not exactly cordial actions on my part. But as I near the age of 30 I'd at least hope that I'm not quite as antagonistic as I used to be and it means a lot to me that you think I've grown a bit.

Who else besides me is

Who else besides me is getting tired of being a cub fan? does anyone else get tired of seeing the cubs screw up every post season they make it to.....my opinion is this is going to be the worst post season I've seen....97-64 and playing like crap aganist LA I have said enough I'm just so pissed

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