Goatriders of the Apocalypse

Cubs need to keep thinking big even if they can't land Peavy

Even if no trade develops with the Padres, I think the cubs should continue to explore the idea of making big moves.


I think the best and easiest move to make is sweeping in and signing Manny Ramirez out of nowhere.  (Everybody yell now, I know, but Manny is a no-brainer)  I realize he is older and not left-handed, but he is one of the few players in the game today that you know will produce with a near .300 average, 30 home runs, and 120+ RBI.  I would pay a premium to get one of the best hitters of our generation long before I paid that premium to get a player that has even more personal issues than Manny does; while at the same time Bradley is less productive, no more durable, and provides less postseason experience.  So to me, I think it would be worth spending more to get more production from the higher priced player, as I think the better player pushes you deeper into the playoffs.  Especially now, the cubs want to win now and Manny Ramirez is available now and either no other team wants him or none can afford him.  So it makes sense, the cubs can afford him, the lineup could certainly use him, and he is the type of player that pays for himself.  This is likely the last time in a long time that a player of Manny Ramirez's caliber can be had with little competition along with a lower pricetag than most would have ever thought possible; along with the fact that the 2010 free agent class is much thinner than what is available this year.  The cubs ownership situation is uncertain, but one thing is known, and thats the fact that 81 home games will be completely sold out at Wrigley Field in 2009 and the revenue streams will continue to flow.  When a team is as solid as the cubs already are its difficult to improve, but Manny Ramirez is a clearly an improvement that could be made.


And even before I gave Bradley his 3 year deal I would make one last stab at the Orioles two stars B-Rob and Markakis.  The O's have made little progress in reaching extensions with either, and if the cubs could put together a package of players to acquire both then the cubs and orioles could both likely benefit from the deal.  The O's are in the process of rebuilding while the cubs are looking to win now, so they naturally are a good match to strike a deal. For the 2 together I would be willing to part with a package of Vitters, Cashner, Pie, Cedeno, Hoffpauir, along with at most 2 pitchers - but it likely would be difficult to be able to land both Roberts and Markakis in the same deal, but definitely worth trying.  I also think that asking the braves what it would take to get Yunel Escobar in a deal would be a good idea.  The braves seem willing to move him, and the cubs could play Escobar at SS and move Theriot to 2nd Base, which would improve the defense in the middle infield considerably.

No Way!

I'd take a team full of Milton Bradleys before I took on the walking pile of crap that is Manny. I have HUGE reservations about the baggage that comes with Milton, not to mention his history of injuries. But with that being said, I've never questioned why Milton is playing the game. Sure, he does stupid things that cause suspensions and injuries- which hurt the team- but I don't think Chicago's management would ever have to worry whether he laid down on his teammates because he's "just being Milton". He's a hot head, one who acts before he thinks, but pro sports are filled with talented guys like this. Manny is a spoiled baby- one who quit on his teammates, his fans, and the folks paying his lucrative salary. In my book, that's inexcusable. I'd like nothing more than to see every team take a pass on this bozo; he can go hang out with fellow egomaniac Sammy Sosa.

I'd pass on Manny as well.

Not only is he likely to sign somewhere in the NL West, whether it's the Dodgers or Giants, but he's more of a headcase than Milton Bradley and he's a worse fielder. He tore up NL pitching in the 50-something games he played, but if Bradley ends up signing with the Cubs, I'd take a guess that his numbers will improve even more due to the league switch, so I'm fine with that. Concerning Roberts/Markakis - Angelos and Mcphail are not likely to let Roberts and Markakis, their two best players, go for an unproven major leaguer (Vitters), a DH with a hole in his swing (Hoffpauir), a moron (Cedeno), and a CF who hasn't shown that he can hit MLB pitching (Pie). Wishful thinking, buddy.

manny is a fantasy and so

is getting brian roberts and nick markakis.

first off that package would never work. andrew cashner cant even be traded until after june of this year. a draft pick has to be with the organization for one year before they can be dealt. other than that fact, it would take that whole package to pry away peter angelos' love child, brian roberts.

what it boils down too is that the cubs really only have three options. they are all left handed and are all free agents. i dont think i need to type their names.

Just to clarify, Bradley has

Just to clarify, Bradley has played several seasons in the NL already.

Say what you will

But Manny is available on the free agent market, the cubs have open spots that he could fill in the lineup and outfield, and the cubs could make this investment if they chose to do so. The cubs are a deep team with specific needs, and Manny fills those needs in the biggest way. Say what you will about his character, but the man produces on a level which Milton Bradley will only be able to watch videos about. He brings a threat to the middle of the cubs order that is sorely needed, whether he stands in the left or right-handed batters box shouldn't be the deciding factor. You can say that its a fantasy and its far-fetched, but its really not. No teams in the west have any better chance of landing him than the cubs do, the only difference is those teams' willingness to get involved, as its not an issue of dollars either if the team can move enough people to add Milton Bradley. The way I look at it, the investment of $50M in Manny over 2 years would be a better avenue to pursue rather than investing $36M in Milton Bradley over 3 years. In my opinion, the most ideal situation would involve signing Manny to a 1 year deal at the price it takes, and then you have a player that is making more than enough money to keep him happy and at the same time he would have to produce in order to get his contract in the next off-season. I look at the prospect of an OF consisting of Soriano, Fukudome, and Bradley, and I see an incredibly overpaid outfield for the production one could reasonably expect from the group. The point I am trying to make is that if you are gonna spend $50M a season on 3 outfielders I would rather see Soriano, Reed Johnson, and Manny Ramirez out there; even if that means that you have to trade Fukudome to clear payroll dollars to make it happen.


Okay, so you're fine with paying a ridiculous amount of money to an aging jerk with terrible defensive skills who QUITS when he's not happy? Dude, I want to see Chicago win the Series as much as the next Cubs fan, but there's the right way to do it- and this isn't it. You're suggesting Chicago takes a page from the Yankee$ philosophy of spending whatever it takes to bring guys in (malcontents or not), with no thought to a player's character or the effects said player will have on a team's chemistry. And that's not to say that Bradley is a sterling example of a good clubhouse guy: but he's younger, cheaper, plays better defensively than Manny, and isn't a quitter. If the Cubs have to take a chance on a questionable guy, I hope he's it.

Manny's defense is truly

Manny's defense is truly awful. Also, this goes away from balancing the line-up, which is a key goal this offseason.

Adam Dunn will hit more home runs next year, play about the same defense, and likely be cheaper. You can get huffy over average if you'd like, but if you're willing to sacrifice defense for middle-of-the-order hitting ability, you should take a longer look at Adam Dunn before advocating a Manny Ramirez signing.

You do know this guy quit playing hard so he could get out of his contract, right? Like, he stopped playing because he wanted out of the $20MM team option he had on his contract.

We don't want this guy, dude. Trust me.

i could not agree more

about other options than manny. it is milton bradley or adam dunn really for me at this point. i dont really think there are any other realistic options.

and from everything that is being reported, we better just all start getting used to having milton bradley.

i just hope his hot head will help lou get his balls back. because the aquafina has definitely shrivelled them up into nothing.

I'm not saying to be the Yankees

What I am saying is that if you're going to spend money to get a player, then you spend more to get more. Throwing $30-35M at Milton Bradley isn't a small investment, and in my opinion its even more of a risk because he can't ever seem to stay healthy and he has the ability to fracture a clubhouse. You can say that Manny quit on the Red Sox, but the way I look at it they did an awful job managing their players. No one in Boston had anything to say when Manny took them on his back to getting 2 rings, but suddenly he leaves town and they can't win the big one - that's no coincidence. The team remained largely the same, and Jason Bay is no slouch of a replacement, but at the end of the day they couldn't win it without him. Look at the Dodgers that came in and handily whipped the cub's asses in the Division Series; without Manny they aren't even there, but once he's there he tips the scales enough to get them to the NLCS. Yes Manny is a tough player to deal with and can cause problems, but so too does the guy that the team is currently trying to lock up for the next 3 seasons and he is far, far, far less productive. Simply put, Manny is good for 40HR and 120+RBI, while Bradley is only going to give you 20HR and 90 RBI, so i would say that Manny's price tag is worth the production and postseason experience he brings to the table. In my opinion, a team has to be willing to make exceptions when you have the opportunity to add a hitter of Manny Ramirez's ability. The team needs a middle of the order presence period, whether that hitter is left or right-handed. Milton Bradley is at the very least a $30M dollar roll of the dice. People say that spending $10M a season on Kerry Wood is dumb because he is an injury risk and the team will be fine without him, well now I hear those same people saying go sign Milton Bradley when he basically represents the same exact injury risk as Wood. For the money involved I am simply suggesting that you either take the big bath and sign Manny Ramirez or you play it conservatively and re-sign Jim Edmonds on the cheap. I personally don't see the logic in investing another $10-12M per season in another inconsistent outfielder, when the team is already sitting on Fukudome's contract for the next 3 years. I would rather have one sure thing with Manny for 2009, than two question marks with Fukudome and Bradley both in the outfield until 2011. I think that offering Manny a 1 or 2 year deal in today's market represents a once in a lifetime opportunity, but as usual cub's management has their heads buried in the sand. Manny is a once-in-a-generation-type of player, where players like him don't come around often and they surely don't grow on trees. Manny has had 12 seasons in his career with 30 HR's and 100 RBI, which are numbers that Milton Bradley couldn't put up over a single season if the team let him bat twice each time they go through the order. Finally Manny Ramirez is THE postseason monster the cubs need in their batting order. In his career Manny's team has reached the playoffs 10 times; where he has played in 103 games, hit 28 HR's, with 74 RBI's, 64 runs scored, and 70 BB's. So not only would the team be getting one of the best hitters of our time, they also get one of the most consistent hitters in baseball, who has performed as well as any other player in the history of baseball when it comes to the postseason. He fills every single need the team has on offense, but since he doesn't bat left-handed he's not even considered. If the cubs signed Manny to a 1 year deal it would be the best move of the entire off-season by any team in baseball, and you wouldn't have to worry about him quitting on the team because with a 1 year deal he has to produce to get his next contract. The goal is to win, and to win in October, getting the best players gives you the best chance to do that. Manny is a proven producer and winner, while Milton Bradley is a talented question mark that hasn't proven to be anything more than inconsistent and volatile. Manny is an investment that pays for itself, and he produces consistently in the biggest situations in baseball, the Playoffs.

Sorry to be repetitive,

Sorry to be repetitive, Harry, but I must say it again - your thoughts would be much more accessible if you separated your points with *paragraphs.*

It doesn't make the content of your post any longer, it just makes your thought process easier to follow.

So Manny's good for about 20

So Manny's good for about 20 more home runs and 30 more RBIs than Bradley. What does that average out into additional wins per season? The Cubs are notorious for hitting lots of home runs over the past several seasons: it's been feast or famine with them. I don't think more HRs are the answer to a 100 year old question. Harry, you keep overlooking the facts that Manny is an AGING player, closer to being an OLD one. At some point, the production you so highly tout is going to diminish. His defense stinks, he doesn't hustle, and he sulks like a two year old and quits when he's not happy. That's preferable to Bradley's volatile nature?

Why should Boston have anything to say about the Great Manny-- he wasn't the only guy on the field winning championships. The Red Sox won because they had great teams, one that Manny was a part of. Simple as that.

Don't kid yourself: the Dodgers didn't "whip the Cubs' asses". The Cubs beat themselves.

You keep mentioning how great Manny is in the postseason, but I wonder how you keep this giant baby pacified through the season to even get to the playoffs?


Its funny that Manny, according to you, will surely quit on the team and won't play. But even more likely than that happening would be Milton Bradley either getting hurt or going awol because someone said something he doesn't like and he tears his ACL trying to get to them, but you wouldn't even mention that with Bradley. You paint the most optimistic picture for Milton Bradley, but then look at only the negative aspects of a proven Hall of Famer. The closest Milton Bradley will come to the Hall of Fame is sitting in the seats listening to Manny's acceptance speech. You can say that Manny is getting older, but on a short-term 1 or 2 year deal his production wouldn't fall off much, if at all. By comparing Manny and Bradley you are comparing a baseball player to a bat boy, there is no comparison. By the way, Manny is the best postseason hitter in the history of baseball, its not really a question more a matter of fact, which would explain why he has been selected as a World Series MVP. Manny is an odd guy to say the least, and difficult to keep under control, but he is also an incredible hitter and baseball player. You can say that Manny quit on the gay red sox, but Milton Bradley has never even been part of a team. Milton has been seen as a problem everywhere he has been and more trouble than he's worth, which is the only way that a player ends up playing for 6 different teams in 9 seasons. He doesn't care about a team, he only cares about what people have to say about him. All I'm trying to say is if the team is going to try and gamble on a tough player to deal with, then they should get a proven producer as opposed to nothing more than a question mark that can hit left-handed.

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