All this Marquis mumbo jumbo will be irrelevant when Prior takes over the #3 spot by mid-May and Marquis and Miller will be fighting for the #5/middle relief role.

(takes sip of Kool-Aid)

Who the hell looks at the train wreck of a season that Jason Marquis had last year and thinks "Hey! He won 14 games!"? What sort of a simpleton would you have to be to bring it up as justification?

Put yourself in Larry's position and give yourself the benefit of the doubt.

Your boss has just made a horrible signing. You've got a new #5 guy and you'll probably have him for the next three seasons. You need him to perform well, so you're going to try and provide a little cover for him.

We don't need Larry to tell us he's horrible. We can glance at the stats and deduce that ourselves. We need Larry to get in Marquis' head and turn him around.

Probably won't happen, but I'm not going to begrudge the guy for not lambasting his new acquisition.

Who the hell looks at the train wreck of a season that Jason Marquis had last year and thinks "Hey! He won 14 games!"? What sort of a simpleton would you have to be to bring it up as justification?

Put yourself in Larry's position and give yourself the benefit of the doubt.

Your boss has just made a horrible signing. You've got a new #5 guy and you'll probably have him for the next three seasons. You need him to perform well, so you're going to try and provide a little cover for him.

We don't need Larry to tell us he's horrible. We can glance at the stats and deduce that ourselves. We need Larry to get in Marquis' head and turn him around.

Probably won't happen, but I'm not going to begrudge the guy for not lambasting his new acquisition.

Monsieur Marquis.....this had me cracking up! Seriously though, why the hell did Pinella keep Rothschild? He's got to be the suckiest pitching coach in the majors.

Ok. Marquis sucked last year. However:
1) "He's averaged 150 innings over the last 6 years." Of course, he's only been a full time starter in 2004-2006, with 16 starts in 2001, and 22 in 2002., and 2 starts in 2003. Of course, over the last 10 years, he's only averaged 91 innings a year.

2) Marquis won 14 games in 2006. In his wins:
#1 5.1IP, 2ER 5K/3BB
#2 6IP, 3 ER, 5K/0BB
#3 8IP, 1 ER, 2K/1BB
#4 7IP, 1ER, 1K/4BB
#5 7.2 IP, 3ER, 1K/2BB
#6 8.1 IP 5ER, 3K/1 BB
#7 7IP, 1ER, 2K/2BB
#8 5 IP, 5 ER, 5K/5BB
#9 8IP, 1 ER, 3K/2BB
#10 7IP, 4ER, 5K/1BB
#11 7.2 IP, 2ER, 4K/2BB
#12 8IP, 0 ER, 2K/0BB
#13 5IP, 3 ER, 4K/1BB
#14 5IP, 5ER, 2K/3BB

Most of his wins were solid starts, not like he always pitched 5 innings, gave up 4 runs, and got the win because the offense scored 8 runs.

Let's wait and see before we run him out of town. If he pitched like he did overall laast year, I'll be the first to admit it was a bad signing...hell, it isn't a great signing now!!!
that being said, he has had some success at the major league level.

This is turning into quite a bitch-fest.
Not very informative or entertaining to check your site the past few days.
Its one baseball team out of many. And you guys seem to want perfection.
No team thats wont he World Series in a long time has been perfect, why do you think putting together a perfect team and making the perfect moves would get you anywhere anyway.
Relax, enjoy the cubs making moves and hope something intangible clicks. Because right now the staff is certainly good enough to win a world series, but its up to players performing at this point. And they perform better usually with support instead of incessant bitching and ridicule.

Anyone wearing a Cubs uniform should be one of your favorite players. Or you should just change the site to Baseball Fans Who Live in Chicago and Wanna over-analyze and bitch.

You guys damn well know that Jason makes a great crumb cake. Larry is going to single handedly destroy his elbow and shoulder all for the sake of the mighty crumb cake.

Lets give Larry a break. He hasnt destroyed arms. Kerry Wood had problems before he got here. So lets relax on Rothschild.

Larry has to support this signing. What else is going to say?

Sean, good job, maybe you can talk some sense into some people.

Although, im hoping Marquis can rebound and not pitch as badly has he did last season. I think it is pretty well documented he didnt pitch well last season, but that doesnt mean he cant rebound and i hope he does, just right now its not a great signing.

We're Cub fans. It's been 100 years. We're entitled to bitch and moan.

(sips more Kool-Aid)

ARR! Belay that 100 years bullshit, swabby!

Okay, no-bitchy article has been posted. Everyone happy?

I'm very pleased!
As for the 'entitlement' to bitch. That's just silly. I love the Cubs, they frustrate me but I still love them. My Dad once told me that it's the girls that drive you crazy and confuse you that you need to keep, because that's a sign that no matter how irrational or underwhelming she is you still want to be with em. That's love. That's what being a Cubs fan is about.

The biggest Cubs curse was us tasting the playoffs and becoming obbsessed with this we must win thing. I love the Cubs and I love how they inspire such passion in me. Sometimes you just gotta remember that. It's all entertainment baby.

"why do you think putting together a perfect team and making the perfect moves would get you anywhere anyway."
Um, Sean....is this a trick question?

This signing is amazingly bad. Paris Hilton's dog could pitch better than this guy. He walked 75 batters and had 130 earned runs last year in under 200 innings and were paying him millions to do the same for us? Anyone who wishes to bitch about this signing is more that justified to do so.
I must say however that I feel really good about the other players we picked up so far this winter.
I also think that it isn't a sin to want your team to sign the best available players, or at least players that will improve your team. Signing Marquis does not help the team and look at the luck we have in signing players with french names.
les ours petits français sucent l'âne!

Well, did a perfect team win last year or the year before?

Making the so-called statistical right moves don't always add up to victory.

Sometimes its about getting quality guys who know how to win.

hahahahaha...

i love it - as does allllll of cardinals nation...

Jason Marquis is beyond bad - i liked the guy who posted his numbers in his wins...perhaps a date behind those numbers woulda helped...that guy was SO bad last year - i dont give a shit that he took some horrible losses that partially skewed his numbers...the guy couldnt make ANY of our postseason (world series champion) rosters...

Easily my favorite moment of the offseason (behind y'all signing an overrated soriano and ted lilly)- my friends and i spent much of saturday laughing about how much fun its gonna be in the wrigley bleachers when marquis pitches...

First of all, Robert, you can go #$%@ yourself. All you Cardinal fans are haters anyway.

Second, experience has shown that unless picher has a physical problem, his best years are mostly a result of his talent. Marquis has talent and is not old or has an injured past. Therefore, his problems that caused his nightmare of a year are fixable.

Third, Adam Eaton got $8 million per are you kidding me?

Fourth, if Rothschld's so bad, why when the Cubs are throwing all caution to the wind to win and spending like a drunken sailor, did Pinella retain him? Does Pinella not want to win or not know what he's doing? If so, we have more problems than Marquis. Why did Maddux an ex teammate of Marquis tell Marquis to talk with Rotschild instead of Mazzone, or for that matter his Dodger pitching coach? If Rothschild was such a bum, why did Dave Dumbrowshi, offer him a three year contract to coach the the Detroit Tigers? Dumbrowski is stupid also?

It amazes me how much pontificating goes on by people who because they have an opinion, think they actually know what the #$%@ they're talking about.

Marquis may not be able to turn his career around, but he has the talent to be a solid starter and if he's willing to not be a hard head and take some coaching, I like his chances to perform well.

Clute - Just because Robert isn't a regular of the site doesn't mean you can be vulgar to him. We are better than that.

P.S. Tonker is far from alone in his feelings for Rothschild. Much like Dusty Baker, it would seem as if Luscious Larry has a reputation far beyond what he deserves.

Sean...I've gotta take issue here.

"Making the so-called statistical right moves don't always add up to victory.

Sometimes its about getting quality guys who know how to win."

1.) The best predictor of how someone will act/perform is their history. Certainly there are exceptions, but if someone is a career .200 hitter, chances are that something "intangible" will wake him up and turn him into a .300 hitter. Likewise, we have no reason to believe Marquis will be a solid starter, let alone a stud.

2.) If the question is "Who knows how to win a ballgame?", was "Jason Marquis" the name that popped into your head? Didn't think so.

3.) The problem with ignoring statistics is that it is ignoring reality. The Cubs got along great last year with themselves. They had lots of "team chemistry", and Dusty just asked them to "show up and play hard." That's what you tell your local park district Tee-Ball team. Stats tell you, plain and simple, what kind of tangible results can someone get. There is no "world series of intangibles." It's one thing to stick by your team - heaven knows, we're Cubs fans, we do that - but that doesn't mean you have to love them no matter what they do. There are other free-agent pitchers out there that the Cubs could have spent the same money on who had better years than Marquis did.

These numbers don't lie - they tell a story about how someone did in the past. To say that they are the future is not necessarily true, but to say that they are immaterial is naive. Statistics are the only actual measure one has of the performance someone makes on the baseball field. You can't measure "knowing how to win." You can measure how often guys get on base when this person is on the mound. You can measure how many times per year a player got caught stealing. You can measure how often a player gets a hit when he puts the ball in play. These are measurements that are vital to knowing whether or not someone is good for your team.

To measure if "someone knows how to win"...you'd have to come up with an arbitrary definition, and then have a psychologist administer the test.

The only non-statistical aspects that are important are a.) Does this player have an attitude which will bring everyone else down, b.) Will he be an injury risk.

Sorry, this sentence should read:

"...chances are that nothing "intangible" will wake him up..."

Ryan-

I must respectfully disagree with you. Better Kurt?

Marquis with that stinko of a year in 2006, has similar career numbers to the other free agent pitchers that were paid $4 million per more.

I don't kow if he is going to accept that the way he was pitching last year has to change or not. But if he can regain his old form, he'll present a much better value than a guy like Gil Meche who career numbers include coming off of one of his better years.

Ryan-

I must respectfully disagree with you. Better Kurt?

When you look at the career numbers of most of the free agent pitchers that weren't named Jason Schmidt, you'll see there isn't much distingushing one from the other.

Marquis did have a stinko of a year last year, but he also has shown he can really have a good year. When you consider pitchers like Gil Meche, are coming off their best year and actually have never had a dominant season and still don't produce better career numbers than Marquis, throwing big money at them would appear to me to be a much greater risk than a Jason Marquis for $7 mil per.

Sorry for the double post guys. Must be old timers setting in.

All you guys do is bitch on this site. Its not even fun to come on here and read anything anymore. I can understand being mad such a stuipd singning but my god u dont have to bitch about it constantly.

Sorry guys, but this is a really bad signing. Do you really think that Rothchild can get in his head? Something that two of the best pitching coaches in the game couldn't do? Marquis is a head case. He was left off the Cardinals postseason roster for a reason.

I can't believe how many people bitch about the bitching. Problem is I can't find the bitching. Weird. Good analysis guys, keep it coming.

As a South City resident, I've been able to see this wack job on a regular basis for the last couple of years. This pitcher, with "potential", which means you haven't done "it" yet, has successfully alienated Bobby Cox, The Mad Rocker, TLR, and Dave Duncan. I pray for Larry Rothchild's sanity, say nothing of Pinella, who lacks any patience for pitchers whatsoever. This disappointing arse pitching in the wee-little Wiggly Field promises to only do worse than the marginally fairer Busch III.

Lord save the Cub fan who finds that Marquis suddenly thinks his catcher isn't on "the level". He did so with Yadi Molina and TLR was forced to improvise by making Gary Bennett Marq's regular catcher. Don't know why, but we can glean one thing: he's a classless wanker.

For Cardinal fans, Marq was worth more to them than pitching for free. Their franchise got two 'sandwich picks' in the upcoming draft and that's more valuable than his contribution.

So fare thee well, Jason, the Argonaut. STL fans will probably find you pretty entertaining for the next three years.

Rothschild makes the hair on my legs angry. He's been nothing but horrible and he's been here longer than any pitching coach since maybe Mike Roarke in the 70's (5 years). He rode the store-bought arms of Brown/Fernandez/Leiter/Livian to the World Series in Miami in '97, and has been able to live off that still. His tenure here has been marked by overwhelming inadequacy. I won't necessarily pin Fraudschild for the injuries, but keep in mind that he was here before Baker and the only year when the Cubs pitching was highly efficient was the '03 season when they rode Prior and Wood into the ground.

But what gets me is his reputation. Frankly, few pitching coaches in the league are really worth a damn anyway. Mazzone, Dave Duncan and Rick Peterson spring to mind. The rest are just nomads, and yet, amazingly, Rothschild's had his tent pitched in Chicago for multiple, annual disappointment, and at the same time, everyone in the mainstream media introduces him with reverence. That, to me, is the real mystery, and why I think Tonker's question about the pictures in Larry's possessions has merit.

So what are you saying Mike D.? Pitching coaches like Mazzone and Duncan aren't worth a damn and the rest are nomads, but you're whinning like a little B%$#& about Rothschild?

Please! The level of your ranting is only surpassed by your utter lack of knowing what the hell your talking about.

Boo hoo, Joe.

Clute,

I think you've forgotten your meds.

You gotta wonder about the media and the baseball insiders glorifying Dusty Baker and Rothchild...
Are they watching baseball in a different universe than we are? What do they see that we don't?
Its amazing...Its like watching one of those LA cop beating videos where everyone sees the guy getting beat up but the cops saying nothing bad happened..... Its riduculous how these baseball guys(including the media) cover for the inepptitude of their comrades...

You gotta wonder about the media and the baseball insiders glorifying Dusty Baker and Rothchild...
Are they watching baseball in a different universe than we are? What do they see that we don't?
Its amazing...Its like watching one of those LA cop beating videos where everyone sees the guy getting beat up but the cops saying nothing bad happened..... Its ridculous how these baseball guys(including the media) cover for the inepptitude of their comrades...

Mike D.-

I did misread your comment about Mazzone, Duncan and Peterson. Sorry for misquoting you.

Still it doesn't change the fact that Rothschild was treated like the red headed stepchild by Baker, who was totally without a clue in managing his pitchers and just about everything else.

Coaches can only work with pitchers that are open to examine why they're not performaning well, and in the clubhouse, they realize if the manager doesn't have your back.

Any pitching coach or any other coach for that matter can only work with the talent he's given and to think Rothschild instead of Baker or the stubborness of the pitchers themselves had anything to do with the Wood & Prior injuries doesn't understand the dynamics of not having a good working relationship with the manager and how stubborn a immature pitcher with loads of talent can be.

When the manager runs a loose ship, but a coach, especially one who is at odds with his manager, wants to demand a strict regimen for his players to follow, why would the players listen, when their playing time is dictated by their manager, not their coach.

Any successful team, not just a team of talented players, but a winning team, has a program that players understand and realize when the coach speaks, he's speaking for the manager as well.

Zero accountability under Baker did more to make, albeit a less talented a team as we would've liked, still underperform in most categories on the field, no matter who was coaching first, thrid, hitters or pitchers.

Good points, Clute.

All I know is, if Marquis can get paid to suck that badly where do I sign up? I am a 51 year old dead-armed ex D1 pitcher who today could probably post an ERA under 7.00. I'll ask only $5M per year and fresh towels for my towel throwing sessions in the bullpen during my extensive rehab.

Anybody know Hendry's cell number?

This Marquis thing still has me speechless.

Thanks for the welcome
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